Feathercoin daemon and wallet production version 0.17.0.2

Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar


  • | Tip Bushstar

    [quote name=“Fernandez” post=“2712” timestamp=“1368349304”]
    Why do we stop retargeting at 1/4the original with 40% cap? I understand you like the 4x similarility; but is it possible to faster retargeting with higher caps?

    Also, maybe you can put the cap at 41.4% (so that it is 4x after the original retargeting).
    [/quote]

    Take a look at Freicoin. Difficulty adjustments every 9 blocks. It will be very interesting to see how their filter works in practice.

    We’ll go with 41.4% as this will probably appeal to others that we do not deviate too much from Litecoin. Thanks for contributing 🙂


  • | Tip WeTradeCoins

    We, the pool operators, you need anything from us? What shall we spread to people?


  • | Tip Fernandez

    [quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2714” timestamp=“1368350408”]
    [quote author=Fernandez link=topic=363.msg2712#msg2712 date=1368349304]
    Why do we stop retargeting at 1/4the original with 40% cap? I understand you like the 4x similarility; but is it possible to faster retargeting with higher caps?

    Also, maybe you can put the cap at 41.4% (so that it is 4x after the original retargeting).
    [/quote]

    Take a look at Freicoin. Difficulty adjustments every 9 blocks. It will be very interesting to see how their filter works in practice.

    We’ll go with 41.4% as this will probably appeal to others that we do not deviate too much from Litecoin. Thanks for contributing 🙂
    [/quote]

    Thank you for all your efforts. Its great to see the developer making such a huge effort.


  • | Tip Bushstar

    [quote name=“WeTradeCoins” post=“2717” timestamp=“1368351049”]
    We, the pool operators, you need anything from us? What shall we spread to people?
    [/quote]

    Just hold fire for now. We do not want to rush anything though I am as keen as everyone to get a solution in place. Seeing that Freicoin has addressed this issue it shows that this is an accepted problem. What works for the big coins does not necessarily work for the smaller coins. This is why we need alternative cryptocurrencies. Smaller coins have to come up with solutions for issues that would never occur to bigger coins.


  • Regular Member | Tip ChristianRiesen

    I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.

    My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.

    Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).

    I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin 🙂


  • | Tip UKMark

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
    I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.

    My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.

    Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).

    I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin 🙂
    [/quote]

    The main people who need to switch will be the pools, once users start realising that their wallet can not send coins, they too will soon want to update, anyone downloading from mirrors deserve all they get tbh (virus’s & trojans-r-us) - There were 3 main links that I know of and I’m sure bush will update those when it is time.

    The next drop will also make the next difficulty rise further, and another influx of quickly mined coins to be poured on an already fragile economy.

    What you have to remember with Bitcoin is all alts are priced against it, bitcoin profitability is always 100%, maybe that is the problem, as is pricing Bitcoin against Fiat :-\

    Also a lot of longterm GPU miners of Bitcoin have been pushed out by the introduction of cheaper to run ASICS, there is a lot of hashing power out there to support the ‘right’ coin.

    I only wish I knew all the answers, but I do have great faith in bush, having followed other alts and their supposedly supportive developers.


  • | Tip Fernandez

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
    My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22.
    [/quote]

    Just wanted this opportunity to point out that difficulty can drop to 47 max. 4x is the jump limit.


  • | Tip hnizdo

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
    I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.
    [/quote]

    The problem is that primary purpose of the coin are money transactions. Right now featherc is slower than any competition, although originally should be much faster.
    If we want featherc accepted and used by merchants and public, ie successful, it must do its main purpose well in the first place. Its not the case right now. Thats why we should act soon, there are other coins out there, waiting for our failure.


  • Regular Member | Tip svennand

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2733” timestamp=“1368354328”]
    I would strongly advise against the fork. To give you a sample of the browser world: IE 6 still lives. That Zombie wont die. Getting everyone, every last person, to switch will not be an easy task and there will be stragglers, people downloading it from old links and mirrors, etc.

    My second point against it is that it is premature. Just a reminder, the difficult is set to plummet from 188 to 22. That drop will make the traffic on FTC skyrocket again.

    Look at bitcoin, the difficulty skyrocketed in the past 2 months alone. Nobody talks about a hard fork there (and is taken serious).

    I for one will keep building my mining rigs and let them push onward. We can cut those days down with our raw power and dedication to the coin 🙂
    [/quote]

    The difficulty skyrocketed because of continouse new asics, which gives alot of computation power vs electrisity, just look at bitminter, recently a new user came there with 6,5million hash! no wonder the difficulty skyrockets. However so does the average hashrate of each user…

    When it comes to scrypt based coins all the people mining bitcoins are now fleeing that market due to low profit vs high power usage, problem is that a large number of those people are not faithfull to a particular coin, but rather keep jumping coin to whatever of them has the biggest earnings.

    Feathercoin experienced that with network hashrate peaking above 5Ghash, then when the retarget were set in to motion it wasnt as profitable to mine feathercoin and the miners went on to mine litecoin again since the difficulty there had dropped. hashrate for feathercoin falled to under 1Ghash, but the difficulty stayed the same… since the retarget time was 2016 blocks. the retarget time is WAY to high, making people abandon feathercoin.

    If the difficulty problem would not be fixed, the same problem would happen again, making those poor “faithfull” donors that had worked their ass of getting trough those 21 days of retarget time have to go trough it one more time…


  • | Tip Bushstar

    The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.

    The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator 🙂

    Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.


  • | Tip archminer

    [quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2742” timestamp=“1368359096”]
    The more I consider this the more I realise that this needs to be done. We have seen other coins go through successful forks so it can be done. If we do not then when the difficulty goes down we’ll be mined to another super high difficulty and end up in this situation again. Freicoin has now come to this conclusion. I do not want to wait many months for a solution and this is still easier to do when we are young.

    The problem with IE6 is that people can still use Google and check their emails. Plus you still have some very large legacy systems that do not work with anything other than IE6. I came across a system where people still have to use Netscape Navigator 🙂

    Anyway, let’s not get too divided on this issue as we all need to stand together.
    [/quote]

    Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.

    IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.


  • | Tip Sawyer

    Lots if discussion. Any time frames even estimates yet? FTC a out to hit trip 0s.


  • | Tip spynappels

    So we would all need to install new wallets, but can leave our miners pointed to the same pools, assuming we mine pools? Is there anything else we need to do?

    Would we need to move any coins we have out of the wallet, or will the new wallet just use the wallet.dat that is already there?

    Some info on this woukd be good in any announcement.


  • | Tip archminer

    [quote name=“spynappels” post=“2754” timestamp=“1368361371”]
    So we would all need to install new wallets, but can leave our miners pointed to the same pools, assuming we mine pools? Is there anything else we need to do?

    Would we need to move any coins we have out of the wallet, or will the new wallet just use the wallet.dat that is already there?

    Some info on this woukd be good in any announcement.
    [/quote]

    You just need to update your FeatherCoin software, ie, install the new version.


  • | Tip spynappels

    Ok, thanks for that, that is what I expected, but I think any announcements should include detailed instructions including whether the current wallet will be used by the new software for any new adopters who know as little as me about how software upgrades of the Feathercoin software works.


  • | Tip UKMark

    [quote name=“Sawyer” post=“2752” timestamp=“1368360724”]
    Lots if discussion. Any time frames even estimates yet? FTC a out to hit trip 0s.
    [/quote]

    It’s already been triple 0’s, I bought more 🙂


  • Regular Member | Tip zerodrama

    You should move to a pool which is willing to update to the new software though. Give me ftc will do that I’m pretty sure. Some pools are a bit slow on the uptake.


  • | Tip ftcguy2

    Is it possible to change the way difficulty adjusts like you proposed without making a fork? You can ride this difficulty out, and if people knew that this kind of massive difficulty changes wont happen again maybe more miners would jump onboard. I can donate 4.5 khash/s but this fork bussiness is making me spectical.


  • | Tip UKMark

    [quote name=“ftcguy2” post=“2778” timestamp=“1368370687”]
    Is it possible to change the way difficulty adjusts like you proposed without making a fork? You can ride this difficulty out, and if people knew that this kind of massive difficulty changes wont happen again maybe more miners would jump onboard. I can donate 4.5 khash/s but this fork bussiness is making me spectical.
    [/quote]

    Picture a fork in the road, one is a dead end to the left, we move over to the right. What you are asking is what is being implemented in the fork.
    Don’t fear the word [i]fork[/i], we all just move over to the right.

    On this note, instead of calling it a fork, can we call it an ‘outgoing transition’ instead? 🙂


  • | Tip Bushstar

    Forking has not proved to be a major problem in the past. Bitcoin has gone through this sort of thing in the past, more recently Terracoin went through two forks resolving their difficulty adjust. Freicoin is planning its own fork very soon. Without the occasional fork it is not possible to make some upgrades and tweaks like we are planning to do.

    To upgrade you would copy the content of the zip file over your existing files. Or delete the FeatherCoin folder and extract the new one.

    Your wallet is not located in the same folder as the Feathercoin client. Just to be safe make sure that you have backed up your wallet somewhere.

    [b]Backup on Windows[/b]
    Go to Start -> Run (or press WinKey+R) and run this:
    [quote]explorer %APPDATA%\Feathercoin[/quote]
    Feathercoin’s data folder will open. For most users, this is one of the following locations:
    [quote]C:\Documents and Settings\YourUserName\Application data\Feathercoin (Windows XP)

    C:\Users\YourUserName\Appdata\Roaming\Feathercoin (Windows Vista and 7)[/quote]
    If you have trouble browsing to these folders, note that “AppData” and “Application data” are hidden by default.

    The file you need to backup is called wallet.dat. I suggest you add it into a passworded zip file before copying it to Dropbox, USB stick or somewhere else. When you back up the file make sure you copy it and do not move it.

    To restore your wallet to another computer you run Feathercoin and close it again. Browse to the above directory and copy the backed up wallet.dat over the newly generated one. Then you would run the wallet using the -rescan option to make it recheck all transactions in the block chain.