Feathercoin daemon and wallet production version 0.17.0.2

Difficulty Discussion - Fork Update - Bushstar


  • | Tip UKMark

    [quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2830” timestamp=“1368389391”]
    [quote author=Bushstar link=topic=363.msg2827#msg2827 date=1368388760]
    This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.

    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
    [/quote]

    We could only hope for such a thing.

    Of course, it wouldn’t be long before adjustments were made and ASICs were back in action…just like it’s only a matter of time before they are taught to mine scrypt.

    Would be hilarious though to see the panic from those who paid a fortune on multiple ASIC hashing monsters.
    [/quote]

    If it can be done via software that is and doesn’t require a whole new IC :o


  • | Tip justabitoftime

    [quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2836” timestamp=“1368389597”]
    [quote author=archminer link=topic=363.msg2746#msg2746 date=1368359937]

    Can’t agree more. And I agree that you should take your time to come up with the best solution. However in the meanwhile please update the stats page to tell people that you care, and you are preparing a solution, and therefore the next difficulty adjustment is not months away. This will give people confidence, and it will help spread the word that a new version is upcoming, so that when it actually comes out more people will know about it and the transition will be more smooth.

    IMHO you should also link to the life support thread in the stats page, to show people not only the devs care, the community cares too.
    [/quote]

    Observation : Over at bitcointalk, I haven’t seen a feathercoin post on page one of alternate cryptocurrencies in 2 days. I can’t post there yet, but I read there a lot and was surprised.

    There was a lot of negative talk about FTC in the other topics however. So I agree with the above statement 100%. If I were unaware of this forum and were holding FTC … I’d probably think it vanished if I did nothing other scan page one of alternate cryptocurrencies [url=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0]https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0[/url].
    [/quote]

    Consider the quality of conversation in the alt currency section, I don’t know if this is a bad thing. Once Bush gets us back on track with the fork, we’ll have plenty to talk about. We have so many projects already wrapping up, we’re about to show them Feathercoin is the trend.


  • | Tip Tuck Fheman

    [quote name=“Bushstar” post=“2827” timestamp=“1368388760”]
    This may be of interest. It is a Bitcoin hard fork wish list. I have to wonder if the change to the block hashing algorithm would stop current ASICs from working.

    https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist
    [/quote]

    From : [url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Hardfork_Wishlist[/url]

    [quote]Difficulty adjustment periods should overlap (prevent potential ‘timejacking’) Note: An ideal adjustment algorithm would ensure there is no easy dispute on “next target” for any block. Eg, [i][b]it should not be possible for MinerX to set his block time 2 hours in the future to achieve a slightly higher difficulty and win any same-block-height race by default[/b][/i]. [/quote]

    This [i][b]is[/b][/i] possible currently?


  • Regular Member | Tip zerodrama

    @Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible. It’s a network remember. Most of the network would reject such blocks. I don’t think it would even work on pools. You can’t just set your own difficulty and expect the network to honor it.


  • | Tip Tuck Fheman

    The discussion page was interesting on the bitcoin hardfork wishlist, especially this part …

    [url=https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security]https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Talk:Hardfork_Wishlist#Proposals_which_reduce_security[/url]


  • | Tip Tuck Fheman

    [quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2852” timestamp=“1368392168”]
    @Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
    [/quote]

    Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?


  • | Tip UKMark

    [quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
    [quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
    @Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
    [/quote]

    Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
    [/quote]

    Highly intelligent crypto geeks, thinking up the impossible possible, so it has to be fixed 🙂


  • Regular Member | Tip zerodrama

    [quote name=“Tuck Fheman” post=“2857” timestamp=“1368392760”]
    [quote author=zerodrama link=topic=363.msg2852#msg2852 date=1368392168]
    @Tuck I highly doubt that’s possible.
    [/quote]

    Which makes me even more curious. Why does it need to be fixed?
    [/quote]

    My bad. I read it backwards. The idea being that you could fake the timing of a block to make it seem like you worked harder when there is a dispute over blocks that are the same length as others. I still think it’s difficult, but it’s an interesting thing to look at.


  • | Tip Ilocans

    Hi

    I do not know all the specs of the coins but using my logic, why not simply take the min between 2016 block or 3 days after the last change. I remembered that the difficulty use to increase ever 2 or 3 days so I think it is a reasonnable delay ?


  • Regular Member | Tip ChristianRiesen

    @zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.

    Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.

    My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.


  • Regular Member | Tip Markus1337

    Very well explained, learning everyday ^^ thank you


  • Spammer Banned | Tip Kevlar

    The problem with ‘sitting it out’ is the lower the hashrate drops, the longer we have to wait.

    Right now, the time to wait is increasing FASTER than the time it will take… which means at this rate we’ll never reach it.

    So do we have a plan of attack yet, or is this sill in the planning phase? It seems to me a simple time to retarget plus a limit on the change is the easiest road there, is it not?


  • | Tip DigitalDoom

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2877” timestamp=“1368395047”]
    @zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.

    Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.

    My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
    [/quote]

    What do you mean by “sit it out”?

    I think your “two worlds colliding” view is a little short sided. I think there’s something much more dynamic at play here.

    Sure, 20 days isn’t an eternity on the grand scheme of things. However, it’s impossible to know if/when the next big crash (and yes, I know a crash from a correction) in crypto might happen.

    A few questions I think are important to ask ourselves:

    If the major player (Bitcoin, obviously) should suddenly crash to $6 or even less, how many of the new coins (such as FTC) will survive until the world shows renewed interest in crypto a few years from now (if ever)?

    Could FTC survive the next 2-3 years of no one knowing what the Hell it is, or no one caring? Doubtful!

    What if that crash comes in a week and we’re all “Sitting it out” for 20 more days?

    I know we all hope this recent boost in crypto popularity and recognition will last forever, but there is no guarantee that it will happen. I personally think that it’s important right now for any new coin wanting to be more than a “grab-n-go” money-maker to get in the lime-light and do everything possible to stay there. Any coin that’s right now being viewed as a “dying coin” (whether accurately or not) by “Mister Joe Public” is sure to be dead in 2-3 years should a detrimental crash hit the crypto-currency world tomorrow morning. I doubt many of those on the FTC development team are in a position to withstand a 2-3 year hiatus, waiting for crypto-currency to come back in style with the general public.

    I just think that right now is a really bad time to be gambling on whether 20 days is enough to kill a coin or not…why take the chance?

    I do however think that right now, (after the unexpected, fast and furious rise and fall of FTC) is a good time to be catching a breath, figuring out what went right and what went wrong…strengthening the weak areas and preparing for a bigger and better FTC to unleash on the crypto world. I believe that is pretty much what Bushstar and others are doing right now.

    While this is nothing to be jury-rigged together or fixed with a duct tape patch job, it is important I think, to get the ball rolling again ASAP. Who the Hell knows what the crypto world will look like in another month or so? I, for one, don’t want to be “sitting it out” until then and hoping for the best.

    (my apologies if I’ve mistaken your meaning of the term “sit-it-out”…or anything else. I have a difficult time understanding or grasping a person’s intent or the context of phrases when I read text. I often stick my proverbial foot in my mouth because of something I read and mistook to mean something completely different from the writer’s intent. Really sucks bad when it’s a text from my wife that I’ve misunderstood! ;))


  • Regular Member | Tip zerodrama

    [quote name=“ChristianRiesen” post=“2877” timestamp=“1368395047”]
    @zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.

    Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.

    My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
    [/quote]

    The problem is it’s not 20 days. People need to be coming in. They are not. What you have is the false notion of organic economics. I don’t like centralized systems, but there is nothing holy or natural about supply and demand. The demand for fiat via cryptocoins is increasing. Other coins are serving it better. The demand for cryptocoins themselves is crawling.

    There is also the consumer confidence factor. Lack of progress loses friends.

    20 days is becoming 30, 40. What you are calling for is a starvation diet. Instead of dealing with storm you’re saying to stick it out.

    And as I keep saying, this is not NEW PEOPLE. It’s disgruntled bitcoin miners. People don’t want crypto coins. They want FIAT. For whatever bastardized logic, they want the monopoly money. This is causing flash mining and flash exits.

    The situation is not caused by supply and demand. It’s caused by proxy trading. The people who mined Feathercoins did not demand FTC, they wanted BTC to USD.


  • | Tip DigitalDoom

    [quote name=“zerodrama” post=“2915” timestamp=“1368414919”]
    [quote author=ChristianRiesen link=topic=363.msg2877#msg2877 date=1368395047]
    @zerodrama: I get the different view, but it seems to me that there are two colliding world views. Those that think 20 days is an eternity that makes feathercoin die a horrible death, and the rest.

    Difficulty is an equalizer. I don’t know your background, so please don’t take offense if I make this a bit simpler. Currency markets work on the same basic principle of supply and demand like everything else, just a bit more abstracted. With cryptos it gets even more abstract (and technical where even people who know about the subject get knots in their brains). The difficulty slows down (or speeds up) the generation of currency, which both means the value can rise and fall with it, like a normal currency would. If you look at some of the many sites that track the coins and their values, you will see patterns that are close mirrors to what other currencies went through.

    My overall approach (and again, just my humble opinion) is to sit it out. This in my view will be much better for the coin and its stability than anything else.
    [/quote]

    The problem is it’s not 20 days. People need to be coming in. They are not. What you have is the false notion of organic economics. I don’t like centralized systems, but there is nothing holy or natural about supply and demand. The demand for fiat via cryptocoins is increasing. Other coins are serving it better. The demand for cryptocoins themselves is crawling.

    There is also the consumer confidence factor. Lack of progress loses friends.

    20 days is becoming 30, 40. What you are calling for is a starvation diet. Instead of dealing with storm you’re saying to stick it out.

    And as I keep saying, this is not NEW PEOPLE. It’s disgruntled bitcoin miners. People don’t want crypto coins. They want FIAT. For whatever bastardized logic, they want the monopoly money. This is causing flash mining and flash exits.

    The situation is not caused by supply and demand. It’s caused by proxy trading. The people who mined Feathercoins did not demand FTC, they wanted BTC to USD.
    [/quote]

    [b]VERY GOOD POINT!![/b]

    So very true! Much of (more like MOST of) the rush to crypto has been a “gold-rush” of get-rich-quick(ers) who have no interest in nor understanding of supporting crypto as a new, useful and alternate currency. I regretfully admit that more than once I myself have fallen into the trap. Though I joined this (cryptocurrency) community with wide-eyed enthusiasm for supporting a new and better economy, I find myself frequently thinking of crypto trading to USD for fiat profit. This is the one and only reason most of these people (especially many “newbies”[size=8pt]
    I love the term “flash mining”…I think you summed it up perfectly with that. If it’s yours, I commend you…if it’s not, I owe it to the originator.

    It’s quite easy to forget the roots and the purpose of crypto when we live our lives in a fiat world…especially for newbies (Me included). All the more reason why more needs be done to make all cryptocoins spendable and useful.

    I’m no way naive enough to think that the masses can be made to see the big picture overnight. As I said, it’s difficult for me, myself to get out of the “fiat mindset”…and the one and only reason I came into this whole thing is to support crypto as crypto, not as product to trade for USD. Certainly it will be no easy task to open the eyes of those who came here to mine only for the bogus fiat bucks.

    How on Earth do you steer a person toward the goal-line when they came here to play a different game completely?

    This is yet another pitfall of the sudden crypto-craze that’s storming the world. So many people it seems are only able to see the positives of the rise in popularity and completely ignore (or are unable to see) the potential negatives…which exist in equal (and possibly more powerful) amounts.

    Sorry, I know this was off-topic a bit. Your reply just helped to bring my aim back on target and I thank you for that! Knowing and learning nothing but fiat my entire 40+ years on this Earth, it’s easy to slip off course with what this is all about. It’s really quite an enigma as to how it will be possible to steer in the right direction, those who came with nothing but a crypto-to-fiat swapping agenda in mind. In fact, I would say that’s probably the greatest challenge faced by any crypto-coin!


  • Regular Member | Tip DeadZebra

    So are we going to fork? if so when? I think if it’s the way that things are going to go we should take action asap.


  • | Tip DigitalDoom

    I’ve now pointed all of my hashing power (+/- 2.0Mh/s total…nothing to brag about, but all I have right now) at Feathercoin.

    Waiting (*im)patiently for hard-fork to be announced.

    A couple questions that I’m sure are on everyone’s minds right now (well, on my mind at least ;)):

    How much notice will be given before the new client is available for install?

    Not trying to rush, but could we maybe get a window/time-frame…like, are we looking at hours/days/weeks from now?

    I saw something posted last night about “within the next 48 hours”, but was busy and didn’t get to see if that was in reference to the client release or something else.

    Getting excited and hoping to be available the minute it’s ready to go! 🙂


  • Regular Member | Tip DeadZebra

    [quote name=“DigitalDoom” post=“2943” timestamp=“1368428110”]
    I’ve now pointed all of my hashing power (+/- 2.0Mh/s total…nothing to brag about, but all I have right now) at Feathercoin.

    Waiting (*im)patiently for hard-fork to be announced.

    A couple questions that I’m sure are on everyone’s minds right now (well, on my mind at least ;)):

    How much notice will be given before the new client is available for install?

    Not trying to rush, but could we maybe get a window/time-frame…like, are we looking at hours/days/weeks from now?

    I saw something posted last night about “within the next 48 hours”, but was busy and didn’t get to see if that was in reference to the client release or something else.

    Getting excited and hoping to be available the minute it’s ready to go! 🙂
    [/quote]

    Yeah it would nice to get a timeline because I’m also keen for the fork to happen now.


  • | Tip Pathosverdes3

    The Freicoin fork announcement thread was temporarily stickied to the top of the alt board by the admins on bitcointalk to get more attention.
    see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
    maybe Bushstar could contact them when the release is available and do the same for the FTC fork info.


  • | Tip DigitalDoom

    [quote name=“Pathosverdes3” post=“2947” timestamp=“1368428553”]
    The Freicoin fork announcement thread was temporarily stickied to the top of the alt board by the admins on bitcointalk to get more attention.
    see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=67.0
    maybe Bushstar could contact them when the release is available and do the same for the FTC fork info.
    [/quote]

    I only hope this forum is the first place it’s announced. This is where I was told to follow Feathercoin so this is the only place I’ve been spending my time the past couple of days…and the only place I plan to be spending my time from now on!

    I’ve turned all my miners to Feathercoin net now and I’ve traded every last bit of crypto I have on BTC-e (and more in transit now) for FTC. I may just pop a blood vessel in my eyeball if the fork is announced somewhere else first. :o