Those that understand Ripple
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Hey All,
I’m not looking to debate whether Ripple would succeed or fail, I’m looking for more of a understanding of how it works. Here’s a scenario I want to propose:
1. Zerodrama wants to sell Llamas Toys in our forum for $50
2. Markus1337 wants to buy Feathercoins but knows what a hassle it is to get money to BTC and then back to FTC
3. Wesphilly wants to buy Zerodrama’s Llama Toy with Feathercoin
4. Wesphily pays Markus in Feathercoin, Markus pays Zerodrama for the toy1. Does Ripple solve this?
2. Does a Ripple clone solve this?
3. Do you see another option that could be implemented fairly quickly (Processors like Bitpay are a huge hurdle right now) -
I believe it does assuming all parties honor their agreements.
Ripple essentially uses IOU system which is based on user-trust.
My take on it is that when you have to trust a human it makes no sense and you may as well use the federal reserve system.
Just my take.
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[quote name=“Smoothie” post=“8620” timestamp=“1370108833”]
I believe it does assuming all parties honor their agreements.Ripple essentially uses IOU system which is based on user-trust.
My take on it is that when you have to trust a human it makes no sense and you may as well use the federal reserve system.
Just my take.
[/quote]Fed Reserve, don’t even get my started with that scam. :) Escrow services basically function on track record and trust. Could you think of a solution that would work for the above scenario?
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[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“8623” timestamp=“1370109076”]
[quote author=Smoothie link=topic=1110.msg8620#msg8620 date=1370108833]
I believe it does assuming all parties honor their agreements.Ripple essentially uses IOU system which is based on user-trust.
My take on it is that when you have to trust a human it makes no sense and you may as well use the federal reserve system.
Just my take.
[/quote]Fed Reserve, don’t even get my started with that scam. :) Escrow services basically function on track record and trust. Could you think of a solution that would work for the above scenario?
[/quote]I agree escrow services do work that way. But that is why not everyone is an escrow though. Trust is gained by much not given so easily. Hence why ripple fitting into the space of trusting everyone is flawed.
To answer no I can’t think of a solution aside from escrow that would ensure no one would get scammed.
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…Who’s got the Llama now? :-\ :D
Seriously though, I can understand the trust factor, but everyone should be trusted at least once (in fact just once) Ie if it’s broken then it’s over. The problem with trust though, if the thing you are trusting gets too damn big and then lets you down, you are pretty much fooked. Ie: Governments (formerly Empires) are a prime example of this.
An escrow solution would only work if everyone decided to abandon it when/if it failed, judging by how two faced humans are, that won’t happen in a hurry.So Markus, Wesphilly & Zerodrama had best stop complicating matters. :D
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Justabitoftime, I’m half way to solving that without the holy blessings of a closed corporation using the phrase Open.
Ripple is poison. They key is a creative form of education.
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“8635” timestamp=“1370110401”]
…Who’s got the Llama now? :-\ :DSeriously though, I can understand the trust factor, but everyone should be trusted at least once (in fact just once) Ie if it’s broken then it’s over. The problem with trust though, if the thing you are trusting gets too damn big and then lets you down, you are pretty much fooked. Ie: Governments (formerly Empires) are a prime example of this.
An escrow solution would only work if everyone decided to abandon it when/if it failed, judging by how two faced humans are, that won’t happen in a hurry.So Markus, Wesphilly & Zerodrama had best stop complicating matters. :D
[/quote]PirateAt40 had lots of trust until his ponzi scam went bust. So it isn’t a guarantee when someone has a good track record. I guess that is why I prefer math based trust because math has no incentive of scamming anyone. It’s just math.
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[quote name=“Smoothie” post=“8639” timestamp=“1370110584”]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=1110.msg8635#msg8635 date=1370110401]
…Who’s got the Llama now? :-\ :DSeriously though, I can understand the trust factor, but everyone should be trusted at least once (in fact just once) Ie if it’s broken then it’s over. The problem with trust though, if the thing you are trusting gets too damn big and then lets you down, you are pretty much fooked. Ie: Governments (formerly Empires) are a prime example of this.
An escrow solution would only work if everyone decided to abandon it when/if it failed, judging by how two faced humans are, that won’t happen in a hurry.So Markus, Wesphilly & Zerodrama had best stop complicating matters. :D
[/quote]PirateAt40 had lots of trust until his ponzi scam went bust. So it isn’t a guarantee when someone has a good track record. I guess that is why I prefer math based trust because math has no incentive of scamming anyone. It’s just math.
[/quote]Exactly, logical thinking is about as close as I can get to trust.
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So specifically, how can we solve the scenario posted? How can make it easy for merchants to offer products without:
1. Forcing them to hold Feathercoin for any purchase
2. Forcing them to deal with escrow services -
[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“8648” timestamp=“1370112317”]
So specifically, how can we solve the scenario posted? How can make it easy for merchants to offer products without:1. Forcing them to hold Feathercoin for any purchase
2. Forcing them to deal with escrow services
[/quote]Good question. Maybe create a payment processor that automatically does the price lock-in like bitpay and transfer funds. That is the only solution I can think of.
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[quote name=“justabitoftime” post=“8648” timestamp=“1370112317”]
So specifically, how can we solve the scenario posted? How can make it easy for merchants to offer products without:1. Forcing them to hold Feathercoin for any purchase
2. Forcing them to deal with escrow services
[/quote]Pay with Visa? Not sure where you are coming from tbh? :-\
[quote author=Smoothie link=topic=1110.msg8650#msg8650 date=1370112590]
Good question. Maybe create a payment processor that automatically does the price lock-in like bitpay and transfer funds. That is the only solution I can think of.
[/quote]Isn’t this back to trust again though?
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“8653” timestamp=“1370112795”]
[quote author=justabitoftime link=topic=1110.msg8648#msg8648 date=1370112317]
So specifically, how can we solve the scenario posted? How can make it easy for merchants to offer products without:1. Forcing them to hold Feathercoin for any purchase
2. Forcing them to deal with escrow services
[/quote]Pay with Visa? Not sure where you are coming from tbh? :-\
[quote author=Smoothie link=topic=1110.msg8650#msg8650 date=1370112590]
Good question. Maybe create a payment processor that automatically does the price lock-in like bitpay and transfer funds. That is the only solution I can think of.
[/quote]Isn’t this back to trust again though?
[/quote]Payment processors right now are out of the question. It’s such a challenge for anything outside Bitcoin, that’s certainly a long-term solution. We face 2 challenges:
1. New people learning about crypto trying to get money into Feathercoin. My mom wants to pop in her Visa and have it handled… she doesn’t want to link to her banking account, transfer BTC to an exchange, convert it to FTC and send it back to a wallet. She doesn’t… most non-technical people have that same mind set.
2. Merchants would love to sell products to our community. However, if they are not into crypt currencies personally, they don’t want to mess with trying to convert it to USD.
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[quote name=“UKMark” post=“8653” timestamp=“1370112795”]
[quote author=justabitoftime link=topic=1110.msg8648#msg8648 date=1370112317]
So specifically, how can we solve the scenario posted? How can make it easy for merchants to offer products without:1. Forcing them to hold Feathercoin for any purchase
2. Forcing them to deal with escrow services
[/quote]Pay with Visa? Not sure where you are coming from tbh? :-\
[quote author=Smoothie link=topic=1110.msg8650#msg8650 date=1370112590]
Good question. Maybe create a payment processor that automatically does the price lock-in like bitpay and transfer funds. That is the only solution I can think of.
[/quote]Isn’t this back to trust again though?
[/quote]Yes. But not everyone being an escrow is what this solves. Not everyone will be a payment processor. A business like that has an incentive not to scam its customers. But yes you are right when it comes to trust.
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I have an idea I’m working on. Instead of people converting and setting up accounts, what I plan on doing is giving people certificates for purchasing things like a year’s worth of rent, month worth of gasoline, etc. Pools would then use these and hand portions out (not fractional reserve) to noobs. They would also be able to purchase them with credit cards.
The advantage for the people who pay a year in advance is that they get a certificate they can use elsewhere if they have to move because of job, health, family.
The advantage for the pools is added value services and bringing new people to the currency.
The advantage for the new people is dead simple access to currency.
The advantage for everyone is instead of creating a credit network from scratch, pools and individuals who buy into a location’s bundled certificates become the network.Problem solved. Also Visa and Mastercard and PayPal effectively made nearly obsolete.
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1. I saying this back in April :)
2. We pay in USD then? :-\I’m not being (although probably sounding) pedantic btw, but I really can’t see, what you see or expect as a solution?
1. If the world is going to adopt Crypto then it needs to be “easy enough for Granny to use” so some form of prepaid Crypto card (random out of the hat idea)? But how?..
2. If merchants would love to sell to the Crypto community but don’t want Crypto as payment, then it’s up to the Consumer (US) to only go to merchants that will except Crypto, why should we compromise in what we want to be our future? < Again the only thing stopping us, is US! -
[quote name=“UKMark” post=“8663” timestamp=“1370114777”]
1. I saying this back in April :)
2. We pay in USD then? :-\I’m not being (although probably sounding) pedantic btw, but I really can’t see, what you see or expect as a solution?
1. If the world is going to adopt Crypto then it needs to be “easy enough for Granny to use” so some form of prepaid Crypto card (random out of the hat idea)? But how?..
2. If merchants would love to sell to the Crypto community but don’t want Crypto as payment, then it’s up to the Consumer (US) to only go to merchants that will except Crypto, why should we compromise in what we want to be our future? < Again the only thing stopping us, is US!
[/quote]My design shifts the hard part to people who can do the hard part by paying for services and bills in bulk. The noobs can just use their credit cards for the certificates which can then be converted to coin.
I’m rerouting the complexity away from the noobs.
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[quote name=“zerodrama” post=“8664” timestamp=“1370115184”]
[quote author=UKMark link=topic=1110.msg8663#msg8663 date=1370114777]
1. I saying this back in April :)
2. We pay in USD then? :-\I’m not being (although probably sounding) pedantic btw, but I really can’t see, what you see or expect as a solution?
1. If the world is going to adopt Crypto then it needs to be “easy enough for Granny to use” so some form of prepaid Crypto card (random out of the hat idea)? But how?..
2. If merchants would love to sell to the Crypto community but don’t want Crypto as payment, then it’s up to the Consumer (US) to only go to merchants that will except Crypto, why should we compromise in what we want to be our future? < Again the only thing stopping us, is US!
[/quote]My design shifts the hard part to people who can do the hard part by paying for services and bills in bulk. The noobs can just use their credit cards for the certificates which can then be converted to coin.
I’m rerouting the complexity away from the noobs.
[/quote]I looked at your idea after I posted, it looks very good, I take it when you say certificate, you mean some form of digital certificate and not - Whoof up in smoke, where the fooks my certificate, certificates? :)
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Yes. With the added benefit of making the housing market turn its wheels. (or whichever markets we choose).
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Ripple is a big fraud targeted at BTC and other cryptos.
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[quote name=“ghostlander” post=“8699” timestamp=“1370127004”]
Ripple is a big fraud targeted at BTC and other cryptos.
[/quote]I must admit I have had this thought myself.
