FTC's future
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I have a very special meeting with a very important person tomorrow.
I’ll settle this dispute so can everyone just chill it for 24 hours and we can get back to killing each other then hrm?
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I think all the ideas are bad… we must do more research
Lets get core in
then we make our next ground breaking move ok?
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End of argument
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Try to do that research again. There were so many coins that when losing market share they tried to reduce coin reward.
You have no experience changing the inflation model of FTC, nor of other coins, so you cannot possibly make that statement.
Correct. We have never changed the FTC inflation model :D At most we changed the reward to 80 when moving to 60 second blocks while maintaining the overall inflation model. I have seen other coins change their inflation model and have designed other inflation models for other coins before launching. I would say that I am qualified to talk about such thing.
We’re all practical people, and you’ve not made any argument for WHY this ISN’T PRACTICAL. It will seem perfectly practical when it’s done.
Yes I have.
Let me ask you a question then, what incentive is there for anyone to mint a 0% PoS block?
I’ll answer, none. It is a pain to users to lose their coins during stake generation for no gain. So in the long run it if FTC gained massive adoption you might expect people to work around PoS as you cannot force people to mint PoS blocks.
Also what is so wrong with ACP, it is not a long term solution but it saved us from some pretty brutal 51% attacks. It was no use suggesting 0% PoS then and it is still no use now. You would rather have seen FTC sink than lose your integrity? I’m not going to put my personal pride above the well being of Feathercoin nor am I happy to see you mislead the community.
Imma gonna have to say it again. You know that 0% PoS is a bad idea that will not work. Either that or go do some actual research on coins that have reduced their block reward.
I remember WorldCoin started reducing their block reward by 1% a week until they get to 1 coin a block. I do not believe it had the desired effect. Justabitoftime asked me to do the same to Feathercoin but at 2% a week. It was only then that I realised what an idiot I had been for trusting that guy. His next idea was to fork Feathercoin to create Feathercoin2 with more bells and whistles. Kevlar, are you sure you are not Justabitoftime in disguise?
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Let me ask you a question then, what incentive is there for anyone to mint a 0% PoS block?
I’ll answer, none. It is a pain to users to lose their coins during stake generation for no gain. So in the long run it if FTC gained massive adoption you might expect people to work around PoS as you cannot force people to mint PoS blocks.
Wrong on every single account.
First of all incentive: Blockchain security. Transaction confirmations. You missed the most obvious reasons of them all. And, of course, mining rewards.
Secondly, you’re still repeating the same lie about users losing their coins during stake generation, while claiming no gain, both of which have been addressed. So nothing about what you’re saying is true or relevant.
Third, you’ve not considered the ramifications of this model when considered with the rest of the solution. These solutions offer little to nothing when considered on their own, as you insist on doing.
Also what is so wrong with ACP, it is not a long term solution but it saved us from some pretty brutal 51% attacks. It was no use suggesting 0% PoS then and it is still no use now. You would rather have seen FTC sink than lose your integrity? I’m not going to put my personal pride above the well being of Feathercoin nor am I happy to see you mislead the community.
Where do I start? Centralization of authority? The fact that it’s identical to a simple client rule? That it subverts the majority ownership? That it offers no actual security whatsoever as anyone with the resources to perform a 51% attack ALSO has the resources to DDoS the ACP node right off the internet? The fact that the problem can be addressed SOOOO many better ways? PoS was a great suggestion then and it remains one now,
[Edit: Text partially removed as it violated forum rule: Section 1, Rule 3]
Imma gonna have to say it again. You know that 0% PoS is a bad idea that will not work. Either that or go do some actual research on coins that have reduced their block reward.
Not only do I know the opposite to be true, I HAVE done the research and I have told you already that there isn’t a coin that is in this position that has tried anything like what I’m suggesting. If you can find one, please point it out! I’m not suggesting we reduce our block reward, I’m sure other coins have tried that, and without a holistic approach to the entirety of the problem I’m sure they failed. No surprise there!
I remember WorldCoin started reducing their block reward by 1% a week until they get to 1 coin a block. I do not believe it had the desired effect.
I’m sure you’re right, and if what I was suggesting was even REMOTELY comparable to the position Worldcoin is in, or the suggestions I’m making bared even the slightest resemblance to Worldcoin’s solution we would have a comparable model. But it’s not. It’s not even close. It’s not even a little bit similar. You’ve once again committed a straw man logical fallacy.
Justabitoftime asked me to do the same to Feathercoin but at 2% a week. It was only then that I realised what an idiot I had been for trusting that guy. His next idea was to fork Feathercoin to create Feathercoin2 with more bells and whistles. Kevlar, are you sure you are not Justabitoftime in disguise?
Really? Ad hominem attacks? Seriously? I point out logical fallacy after logical fallacy with your arguments, and you resort to name calling?
Are you kidding me???
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Kevlar, are you sure you are not Justabitoftime in disguise?
Take note everyone, this is the level of maturity we’re dealing with here.
Bushstar knows without any doubt that we are different people, but he can’t find an argument that doesn’t rely on misinformation and outright lies to stand on, so he resorts to a personal attack on my character as a way to discredit my opinion by trying to draw parallels between a well reasoned argument and some idiot’s half-baked suggestion… as if what I was saying relied on opinion or my character to be demonstrable.
That’s just playground tactics, Bushstar, and you should be ashamed of yourself for stooping to such obviously bad argument tactics. Grow up.
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Take note everyone, this is the level of maturity we’re dealing with here.
Bushstar knows without any doubt that we are different people, but he can’t find an argument that doesn’t rely on misinformation and outright lies to stand on, so he resorts to a personal attack on my character as a way to discredit my opinion by trying to draw parallels between a well reasoned argument and some idiot’s half-baked suggestion… as if what I was saying relied on opinion or my character to be demonstrable.
That’s just playground tactics, Bushstar, and you should be ashamed of yourself for stooping to such obviously bad argument tactics. Grow up.
It is obvious that I am Justabits second account and Kevlar is in fact Kraken.
But seriously, Kevlar is not Justabit, in fact he was among the first who realized he is a scammer.No wonder Justabit wanted to bann him.
Do not treat Kevlar as human, ignore his ego or your emotion and then the discussion is very interesting.
That is my advice to calm down the discussion.
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But we all know you’re very sensitive to being told you’re wrong, Kris, and that you consider it abusive. We accept you for who you are, and even love you for it. *hugs*
I’m not sure I agree with that. I’ve been wrong many times and I’m usually the first to admit it when that is the case. I don’t take offence to being wrong.
I have however taken offence to the way you choose to speak to me in the past.
Of course you believe your right that’s a given, but to you everything is black and white, every statement is either 100% correct or 0% real life is rarely that exact which is why its so hard to discuss anything with you. We cant know with 100% accuracy what effect making some of these changes will do. We can make educated guesses based on real life comparisons but even then unless all variables are the same its just guesswork.
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Of course you believe your right that’s a given.
No I don’t, and no it isn’t. I don’t believe I’m right, I believe I have sufficient evidence to support my claims. That doesn’t mean I’m right, and I won’t be right until after it’s been demonstrated that I was right. I never claimed to be right, I just pointed out that almost everything Bushstar has said is demonstrably false.
That doesn’t make me right. That’s just makes him demonstrably wrong. This isn’t a matter of opinion, we can use evidence that is entirely independent of everything I’m saying to gauge these things.
but to you everything is black and white
Truth is a binary state: Either something is true, or it isn’t. It isn’t ‘true for you but not for me’, that’s just sloppy logic.
Everything cannot be made true or false. Not everything falls neatly into little buckets of truth or non-truth. For instance, an assertion can be partially true, or true under certain circumstances. Opinions are neither ‘true’ nor ‘false’, they’re simply someones opinion. Beauty is subjective, so something that is beautiful to you may not be to me. There’s literally so many examples that I embrace every day of things being neither black nor white.
So I don’t accept that I see things in only black or white. There’s plenty of room for shades of gray, and in fact all the colors in the spectrum.
every statement is either 100% correct or 0%
Well, the statement you’re making is 0% correct. The statement “Penguins have flippers and not wings, therefore penguins are not birds.” Is 50% correct: They have flippers, but they’re still birds. I’m not sure what the point you’re trying to make here is.
We cant know with 100% accuracy what effect making some of these changes will do. We can make educated guesses based on real life comparisons but even then unless all variables are the same its just guesswork.
Even when we think we have all the variables we still can’t know with 100% accuracy, because there are no guarantees in life. Everything is subject to change, and the only thing you can rely on is that change will occur.
Once again, I have absolutely no idea what point it is you’re trying to make here. This seems WAY off topic.
Why do you insist on attacking me personally? Do you really have nothing of any value to add to the problem solving conversation that we’re trying to have that you feel it necessary to throw your two cents into the ring about how your feels get hurt and make a bunch of assertions about me which don’t represent a thing I’ve said?
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Tom Wujec: Build a tower, build a team: http://youtu.be/H0_yKBitO8M
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I thought I locked this thread?
Right.
Keep on topic or your butt is mine ok?
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I thought I locked this thread?
You did, and the community has rejected your decision to do so. And by community, I don’t mean me.
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That’s a shame.
I’ll just delete it if people keep squabbling.
I’m going to start up a new thread for the Core discussing what were doing with it and what changes to what will be necessary to make the community happy with getting out into the public.
That is all that matters. I would like everyone to put aside their petty differences for now and respect the work Liz has done. We focus on getting in the core pushed out as the standard and should be the only thing been discussed right now.
We can figure out the PoS thing or inflation model debate AFTER that.
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That’s a shame.
I’ll just delete it if people keep squabbling.
I’m going to start up a new thread for the Core discussing what were doing with it and what changes to what will be necessary to make the community happy with getting out into the public.
That is all that matters. I would like everyone to put aside their petty differences for now and respect the work Liz has done. We focus on getting in the core pushed out as the standard and should be the only thing been discussed right now.
We can figure out the PoS thing or inflation model debate AFTER that.
No censorship or locking threads please.
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The inflation model stays but compromises will have to be made.
I’m searching for a solution in PoS or a modification to PoW itself where it requires a modifaction to P2Pool.
I will never censor. But if people can’t behave themselves I will lock as many threads as I deem fit.
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Its been a legitimate debate. At least everyone can see where we stand.
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To add something, I remember Piggy coin rised in value nicely after changing emmision model.
Not sure in what state are they now.
And the other is Gridcoin, changed total number of coins 10x up, but old coins had to be burned (exchanged for new).
Gridcoin seems ok.
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And the other is Gridcoin, changed total number of coins 10x up, but old coins had to be burned (exchanged for new).
Gridcoin seems ok.
They’re still in the process of that conversion, final deadline is April 20th.
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So you called me a liar for stating that coins are locked out during the stake generation process. Let me reiterate that again below.
In Peercoin for example when PoS block is generated the coins used to generate that block cannot be spent until 520 confirmations.
Kevlar, it occurs to me that you have the wrong view of me and Feathercoin. You put me on a pedestal so you can knock me off it. The thing is, I am not the God of Feathercoin. I launched it and was pretty much the only person contributing to development for a long time, this is not the position I wanted to be in but people generally left it up to me. I was disappointed but I got on with it and made tough decisions when I had to. I did ask others to help including yourself but when I asked you to do some work but you took personal offence by that and went on a long rant.
It is easy to criticise is it not?
Feathercoin now has an excellent team of enthusiasts like myself who enjoy spending time on this project.
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@Kevlar: just for your Info: It was Bushstar who unlocked the thread…
You mentioned your researches several times. Do you have some facts and resulty you are willing to share with us?
It would help to make the right decision where to go.
All and I mean ALL people here are willing to make feathercoin the best existing crypto, and the more proven facts we have, the better the outcome will be.
Speculations and personal opionions are of minor help to make decisions.
Also when discussing past decisions we should try to discuss also when and why a decision was made in which situation.
This could take a lot of heat out of this discussion, leading to faster results
