Changing the hashing algorithm
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bitcoin-side-chains â€"â€"A huge threat
PoW Alt-Coin will encounter major challenges. LiteCoin and DogeCoin may crash. I want to be a choice PoS. Of course, this will not necessarily be the best choice. We want to make early preparations.
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-core-developers-bitcoin-side-chains/
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Hi Lizhi, I hate PoS, it is even more centralising to those with a stake, as a small miner it will make me pointless.
I don’t see how it cures the problem either, big ASICs will soon have a Big Stake.
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I would be interested in doing some calculations on what our mining profitability would be after a change to sha3. And how that compares to maxcoin and any other coins under the sha3 algo.
If we said that our standard rate of ~3ghs (scrypt) was converted entirely to sha3.
As mining scrypt != mining sha3 on the same hardware.
And the difficulty was set accordingly for that rate of hash would we be more or less profitable than maxcoin based on their current hash/difficulty/value?
EDIT:
Gigabyte 750ti
stock scrypt is around 260khs
Stock sha3 is around 62000khs or 62mhsThat’s a huge ~238x speed increase.
This would bring our hash speed up to
~715Ghs pushing up the difficulty I’m guessing. -
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From what I understand, SHA3 would just replace the hashing part of the algorithm , we would retain scrypt to enforce the memory usage.
In that case Maxcoin would have an ASIC designed first, and by adding memory you would make a Feathercoin ASIC. Which would seem a bit perverse.
I would need to look more into how Maxcoin are useing SHA3 to know for sure.
In the end the actual hashing rate is immaterial, the difficulty will adjust accordingly. Profitability calculations currently are non sense dreamt up by exchanges and don’t take into account any technical differences or efficiencies of the coins.
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I want to be a choice PoS. Of course, this will not necessarily be the best choice.
Hi lizhi!
I was lurking in this thread since the beginning but felt I did not have enough knowledge to post. However I would like to trow my 2 cents on the POS system.
For what I realized:
- You keep the money long enough to build “coin age”
This strongly discourage coin usage: I use my money for buying and will lose my chances to stake. If that’s the major coin minting mean, that means you won’t get a cent out of your coins if you make them move around.
- The more you have the more you will gain
This is a no brainer: you accumulate enough money, lock them in a safe (your wallet) and wait for profit. You will need to invest a lot of real money to buy enough to stake profitably.
- What about third party wallets?
If you wish to leave your money on a third party wallet (being that an exchange, an online wallet or whatever) are you completely sure you will get the stake profits? I am not. They will probably gain from you money.
The result is a complete centralisation of the minting system with rich people gaining more money than “poor” miners. No matter how you look at it. The latter will also be discouraged to use their money as they will also lose the minting capability associated to their coins.
Please notice that I’m not talking about security but this system smells like the modern banking system:
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If you spend your money you won’t have enough to get “interests”
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Those with the money create the money and put it back in circulation (with a price). Did somebody said “central banks”??
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Said “bank” will gain from your coins’ stakes.
This resemblance is unbearable for me. I want a coin which is 100% based on the proof of work. It is energy inefficient and bears all the problems you may think about but you can (at least) fix them and reward your miners with coins for their efforts. Being them big or small ones they will get paid for their share rate. This is the reason why I would also like a CPU mineable coin: in the future we will probably want to have miners installed on every single piece of tech hardware mining to compensate energy usage but that’s probably an unrealistic scenario.
Just my 2 cents…
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- You keep the money long enough to build “coin age”
True.
- The more you have the more you will gain
In absolute figures only. You don’t mind if a bank pays more interest on a 1 million USD deposit than on a 1 thousand USD one, don’t you? The relative percentage is supposed to be the same.
- What about third party wallets?
The hard truth is once you have sent your coins out of your wallet they are no longer yours. It’s the receiver’s responsibility to recognise your ownership and return the coins per your request. The receiver collects the interest and keeps it unless there is a special agreement. If the receiver gets robbed, gets bankrupt or just runs away, you have no coins no matter what you think. Staking is much better: you are a bank of your own.
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Has the Groestl algo been considered?
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for anyone interested in looking Groestl was one of the 5 finalists for the SHA-3 competition.
The 5 were.
BLAKE, Grøstl, JH, Keccak, and Skein
Obviously keccak won the competition but only due to its innovative approach and not necessarily because of an increased level of security or performance.
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2012/NIST.IR.7896.pdf
see section 3 for the selection process and reasoning.
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for anyone interested in looking Groestl was one of the 5 finalists for the SHA-3 competition.
The 5 were.
BLAKE, Grøstl, JH, Keccak, and Skein
Obviously keccak won the competition but only due to its innovative approach and not necessarily because of an increased level of security or performance.
http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/ir/2012/NIST.IR.7896.pdf
see section 3 for the selection process and reasoning.
Thanks for providing more information. I don’t know much about hashing algos, or Groestl, but I do know it’s a new efficient algo for GPU mining (having mined Groestlcoin on my GTX 750 Tis).
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I have been lurking for a while but it seems like the best and most popular thing to do these days with GPU coins is to optimize the algorithm for low GPU power consumption. This gives GPU miners larger electrical cost margins to work with compared to other GPU algorithms. You can also dramatically cut down on heat produced with decreased power usage resulting in lower cooling costs. We have the technical knowhow on the FTC team to come up with an algorithm and I would think in order to generate more publicity we should create our own hashing algorithm rather than recycle another. Drk coin’s algo is way to complex and unless mathematically proven there are probably collisions and shorter ways to get the same hashed result in the algo allowing the creation of super fast and efficient miners. Keep the new algorithm simple and easily provable that there aren’t any collisions or shortcuts in the hashing calculations.
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I like the idea of creating an algorithm, that works with low power consumption on the gpu, but creating a totally new one requires much more work, as a full set oh mining software has to be developed.
Also an intense testing would be needed to be sure, that the algorithm is working as expected and robust against malicious mining attacks of various types.
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Not only mining attacks but crypto attacks to make sure the algo itself could not be bypassed and was robust and secure.
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An important news:
http://www.reddit.com/r/reddCoin/comments/249dnl/major_announcement_reddcoin_to_implment_new/
A new algorithm called Proof-of-Stake-Velocity (PoSV) be born.
https://github.com/reddcoin-project/reddcoin
I think a small miner can be compensated by the contribution in the community.We can set up a fund to solve this problem.
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New ideas for a changing world. 250 FTC to fund if it would be assistance…
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Just wondering how far are we off from new alto, as Scrypt Asic with 90mh/s are now shipping!
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Well it was good mining ftc with GPUs while it lasted, this second gen scrypt asic will move all GPUs out of scrypt within the next month.
I have been mining various Scrypt-N coins for now and doing quite well, just stay ahead of the droves of other GPU miners and profit!
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I’m hoping SuperScrypt will land just in time to save us from ASICs pummelling us. ;D
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Wish I had more free time. It will be done eventually.
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I’m hoping It was a new starting point.
